Ying Fusu's Audience Hall - Nanzheng

VoShay · Post by **VoShay** » Sat Aug 09, 2008 12:37 pm

"I have come to discuss that, Supreme Commander." He said evenly. "The King of Qin may be the Emperor's son, but he is the ruler of merely 50,000 men and two cities. We recognize his superiority to our person, but our entire organization must be recognized and given proper care and liegeman status. Our numbers are almost equal to yours, Supreme Commander. We have men in both Hann and Changsha, about to seize those provinces. They should fly our colors within a season. 20,000+ troops are here in Yong, along with the bulk of our officer Corp. Beyond that, we have members in various camps, working to convince those people to join our side- or providing detailed information about them. We believe we are a useful and powerful ally. But even those you are superior to deserve respect and reward, especially if they are of immense help to you. Such is the true Leige-leigeman relationship. One we are willing to embrace." He nodded, and waited to see if Fuyin had anything to add.

UMCorian · Post by **UMCorian** » Sat Aug 09, 2008 4:24 pm

"My reputation has been earned with the blood, sweat and toil of my loyal, hardworking subordinates," replied the general, reciprocating the bow with an inclination of his head. "But whatever reputation I may enjoy, it has been tempered by my failure to protect Xianyang and ensure the proper succession of His Highness."

"Compassion? What compassion?" replied the general, shaking his head. "I have sacked cities and soaked the blood of his land with the blood of innocents and my enemies. For a soldier, compassion is a wasted sentiment that is usually left when he marches forth."

Brother Fuyin smiles, ever so slightly, and bows his head - awknoledging a potential insult. However, should he have the opportunity to speak, he does so.

Fuyin: "I found your handling of the prisoners at Feiqui was most... compassionate, my lord. Those who repented for their disloyalty were forgiven, even welcomed back into the King's fold. I meant no offense."

Cao Chao · Post by **Cao Chao** » Sat Aug 09, 2008 11:21 pm

VoShay wrote:"I have come to discuss that, Supreme Commander." He said evenly. "The King of Qin may be the Emperor's son, but he is the ruler of merely 50,000 men and two cities. We recognize his superiority to our person, but our entire organization must be recognized and given proper care and liegeman status. Our numbers are almost equal to yours, Supreme Commander. We have men in both Hann and Changsha, about to seize those provinces. They should fly our colors within a season. 20,000+ troops are here in Yong, along with the bulk of our officer Corp. Beyond that, we have members in various camps, working to convince those people to join our side- or providing detailed information about them. We believe we are a useful and powerful ally. But even those you are superior to deserve respect and reward, especially if they are of immense help to you. Such is the true Leige-leigeman relationship. One we are willing to embrace." He nodded, and waited to see if Fuyin had anything to add.

Meng Tian snorted his head. "At the same time, if you had dared to confront the Qin," he replied, almost sneering, at the man that dared to presume to to threaten him with war, "Your armies would've been ground into the dust and your commanders executed. Though our numbers may be the same, you have no one with the experience of leading thousands of men like myself and my subordinates." The Supreme Commander folded his arms before his chest. Though he was not a particularly tall individual, the presence that he exuded was one of a person who was not to be trifled with.

"If you prove to be a worthy vassal of the King," continued the general after a few moments paused, "I can promise that you will be rewarded with high ranks, large fiefs, and other honors. If you abrogate your oaths, I will not hesitate cut you and your comrades in twain with my sword, even those who were amongst the loyalest and most beloved of my former subordinates."

UMCorian wrote:Brother Fuyin smiles, ever so slightly, and bows his head - awknoledging a potential insult. However, should he have the opportunity to speak, he does so.

Fuyin: "I found your handling of the prisoners at Feiqui was most... compassionate, my lord. Those who repented for their disloyalty were forgiven, even welcomed back into the King's fold. I meant no offense."

"That is because in this day and age, one must carefully consider the abilities of the prisoners," replied the Supreme Commander, rolling his eyes inwardly at the lack of comprehension by the man, "We no longer have the luxury of executing all those who dare to defy the will of the Qin when we have been so reduced to the wilderness of the Ba-Shu region. Furthermore, the soldiers of Yong are themselves people of the old Qin. I have no wish to callously execute them."

VoShay · Post by **VoShay** » Sat Aug 09, 2008 11:59 pm

"You misunderstand me, Supreme Commander." The man said, not at all cowed, though still respectful and servile. "I represent an initative to bring all the lands under you. An initative with a presence outside of Yong. We are not threatening you. We are offering you the entire south- if you will but work with us. We wish to serve in our own capacity. We believe that a joint strike into Sai and Henan will see Huhai destroyed in a season or so. After that, we only wish to link all our soveriegn territories together- Yong, Changsha, and Hann. LinJiang we can take and hold for our own, but we need a way to connect with them here in Yong. That leaves Han and Sai. We can secure our own territory, raise our own troops, fight our own battles, be that as it may. What we only require of the King is to be allowed to serve in this way. To help him crush Huhai, then to merge into a Southern force and strike out East against those who do not support his rule. Surely this is a desirable scenario? I live to serve, yes, but I have my own desires. I do not wish to rule over territory large and small- only to put the King into the Dragon Throne, and see those who assist him are rewarded. For my direct subordinates, that desire I am laying before you here. We wish to form a Southern Kingdom, reporting directly to the King, ruled by him, but still a somewhat autonomous region where the laws and dictates are created by those who serve the land itself. The people are loyal to our Magistrates, who are loyal to the Prefects and Counts and Dukes, who are loyal to the Queen of the South, who is loyal to the, in this scenario, the Emperor. We would, of course, be charged with protecting the southwestern border, and expanding our territory and influence." This was said in such a way, with both confidence and deference, that indicated he was demanding nothing.. only laying out what he needed in return for his service.

Cao Chao · Post by **Cao Chao** » Sun Aug 10, 2008 11:20 am

"The idea of a southern kingdom is far from palpable even for myself," replied Meng Tian, shaking his head, quite disturbed at the man's proposal. "Since the time of the Zhou, granting too much autonomy to regional lords has been recognized as a difficult problem. Though the First Emperor was wrong to enforce such rigid top-down control of the entire country, his plan was the correct one. We can no longer have such a pervasive feudal system as in the case of the Zhou Kings who for several hundred years were no more than puppet rulers."

"Because of the distrust sowed by those feudal lords who controlled the state," continued the general, "the Qin will not permit the creation of an autonomous southern kingdom with your own rulers who pay all but nominal tribute and swear oaths of fealty to the King of Qin, who will eventually be Emperor. I will not permit such a clear threat to the authority of the Qin. Though you may swear oaths to His Highness and to the Qin, what promises can you make that your successors and your descendants will?"

"Nay, your proposal is DENIED," he stated with finality.

VoShay · Post by **VoShay** » Sun Aug 10, 2008 12:20 pm

"Who indeed, can speak for their successors? The Qin Empire fell because of the youngest son's greed and the ruthless centralization of government by the First Emperor. Surely there is a middle ground. To turn all but the King himself and his closest advisors into puppets with no free will is to invite rebellion, if the empire doesn't colapse on itself first. Or is it only those with the power to help put the King back onto the Dragon Throne that are dangerous?" He said, not being snide or sarcastic from his tone of voice, but curious. " One would think that having chosen to do so, these lords would e somewhat loyal. Not much point in uniting it under the King only to begin the civil war anew." His words made clear that he was happy to negotiate something agreeable, but he felt that using Legalism to control the whole country was a recipe for disaster. Telling the world it can do nothing except exactly what the King had written into law, and that no autonomy, initative, or thinking was allowed, would never last long. Lao knew this was one of the reasons the First Emperor had failed. You must use information and free will, not crush it.

UMCorian · Post by **UMCorian** » Sun Aug 10, 2008 12:52 pm

"That is because in this day and age, one must carefully consider the abilities of the prisoners," replied the Supreme Commander, rolling his eyes inwardly at the lack of comprehension by the man, "We no longer have the luxury of executing all those who dare to defy the will of the Qin when we have been so reduced to the wilderness of the Ba-Shu region. Furthermore, the soldiers of Yong are themselves people of the old Qin. I have no wish to callously execute them."

Once more, Brother Fuyin inclines his head in acknowledgment

Fuyin: "Compassion born of desperation is still compassion nonetheless. I believe you are a better man than you give yourself credit for. We shall leave it at that, my lord."

Cao Chao · Post by **Cao Chao** » Sun Aug 10, 2008 9:43 pm

VoShay wrote:"Who indeed, can speak for their successors? The Qin Empire fell because of the youngest son's greed and the ruthless centralization of government by the First Emperor. Surely there is a middle ground. To turn all but the King himself and his closest advisors into puppets with no free will is to invite rebellion, if the empire doesn't colapse on itself first. Or is it only those with the power to help put the King back onto the Dragon Throne that are dangerous?" He said, not being snide or sarcastic from his tone of voice, but curious. " One would think that having chosen to do so, these lords would e somewhat loyal. Not much point in uniting it under the King only to begin the civil war anew." His words made clear that he was happy to negotiate something agreeable, but he felt that using Legalism to control the whole country was a recipe for disaster. Telling the world it can do nothing except exactly what the King had written into law, and that no autonomy, initative, or thinking was allowed, would never last long. Lao knew this was one of the reasons the First Emperor had failed. You must use information and free will, not crush it.

"It is not only lieges that can be poor, vassals as well," retorted the general with a look of disgust. "You only look upon the issue from your point of view. You wish for power, glory, and honor in controlling a vast part of this country. You ignore that the Imperial Court cannot permit such autonomy when the examples of history serve as heavy reminders of the threats that such measures poses."

"The guiding philosophy of Qin governance has been sound for more than one hundred and fifty years since their implementation under Shang Yang," continued the general. "Although the punishments of the Qin have been infamous, in all of its history, they have been rarely misused for political ends. All those who have committed transgressions against the laws of the Qin were punished rightly for their crimes. It was only during the latter years of the First Emperor's rule, when he was influenced by the traitorous minister Li Si and the duplicitous eunuch Zhao Gao, that the laws of Qin fractured and fragmented."

VoShay · Post by **VoShay** » Sun Aug 10, 2008 11:46 pm

"Perhaps I am being short-sighted, Supreme Commander. Forgive my rudeness." He said, bowing again. "I am only fearful of the First Emperor, who is no more. I will accept his son as an entirely different person, and I believe it would be best if you, or he, was to tell me what you expected of your vassal, and what you would give your vassal for his service." Throughout the exchange, it should be noted, he had spoken carefully, without brash arrogance, or anything other then a servile, submissive tone of voice.

Cao Chao · Post by **Cao Chao** » Mon Aug 11, 2008 10:56 pm

VoShay wrote:"Perhaps I am being short-sighted, Supreme Commander. Forgive my rudeness." He said, bowing again. "I am only fearful of the First Emperor, who is no more. I will accept his son as an entirely different person, and I believe it would be best if you, or he, was to tell me what you expected of your vassal, and what you would give your vassal for his service." Throughout the exchange, it should be noted, he had spoken carefully, without brash arrogance, or anything other then a servile, submissive tone of voice.

"His Highness, the King will permit you a position as the first amongst his vassals," began the general, "All those with meritorious service to the Qin will be well rewarded with rank, fiefs, and other honors. Those who provide service detrimental to the Qin will be executed. When the unification of the Middle Kingdom is completed, the Qin will be willing to create a Duchy in the southern province and other fiefs for your subordinates."

"Although the Duke or Duchess will have a degree of autonomy on matters within their Duchy," continued the general, "They will be responsible for forwarding tax revenue and sufficient troops each year to support the Qin. Imperial Inspectors will ensure that the Duchy and the other fiefs granted your subordinates work correctly under the laws of the Qin."

"All this depends ultimately on the degree of support the Qin receives in unifying the Middle Kingdom," concluded Meng Tian, fingering the pommel of his sword at his waist. "I have been commanded by His Highness to take Xianyang. Contributions of troops will be required of you and our other vassal."