Chen Imperial Council

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Re: Chen Imperial Council

Postby Mardagg » Tue Mar 29, 2011 12:33 pm

Ma Dieu rose.

"I for one will give my life and ambitions over to the new Son of Heaven. I will secure his lands and will call friend those that support us now and foe any who would question the nomination''

After pausin for effect, Dieu continued

[color=#0000BF''Thank you for your diligent work and guidance Prime Minister, I will abide by your advice and hope to be an honorable protector to the new Son of Heaven."[/color]

Bowing to the Prime Minister, Dieu sat back down to see who else would join in support or those that would dare offer opposition.
Last edited by Mardagg on Tue Mar 29, 2011 1:49 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Chen Imperial Council

Postby AaronH229 » Tue Mar 29, 2011 1:04 pm

Qiong Sui nods but looks at Ma Dieu with hate in his eyes.

"The King of Wu, Yue and Huainan will support the emperor. However, he would ask me to enquire what will happen with the capital province. I believe it to be foolhardy to allow it to be under control of someone meant to be his subsidiary. Chu must be given to the emperor himself, with the guidance of the Prime Minister, to rule. Ma Dieu can reside in Liang and from there profess his loyalty, though I doubt that will last more than a day longer than the time it takes him to realise he can take Chu once more.

The King of Wu, Yue and Huainan supports the emperor but will not stand for any man BUT the emperor being in charge of the capital province."

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Re: Chen Imperial Council

Postby Mardagg » Tue Mar 29, 2011 1:48 pm

Ma Dieu rose, expecting this.

''The Emperor's seat will be assured in Chu and I will act as his protector, having proven both my prowess in battle as well as my support for the new Emperor. If the land comes at peace, there will be no further reason for me to make war, however, no one here present today is naive enough to believe there will not be some against this nomination, including those that did not send a representative. I have purged this land with the brave aid of Zhu Lizhi of Xiang Yu while others pried away at their petty ambitions and spoke well of coalitions and plans without lifting a single finger in the direction of Chu. I have earned the right to protect the Emperor and hope that others will join me in doing so against those that would believe themselves above the Mantle of Heaven.''Pausing, he looked at those gathered, not only the man from Wu.

''You are welcome to dispute me if you wish, but the facts are as they are. I am in control of Chu and all the lives and hard work we have put into getting rid of the Butcher I will not place in anyone else’s hands simply because others are not comfortable with me in Chu. The Prime Minister is welcomed back to help guide me through the political strains and support the Emperor while I will see to it all is in order on the military side. That is the situation as it is, you may agree to it, oppose it or make suggestions as you wish.'' Though he did not answer the man directly, Dieu sat down to see if he would reply or change his stance. Waiting for others as well, he shared a look with his brother Lai.

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Re: Chen Imperial Council

Postby AaronH229 » Tue Mar 29, 2011 2:18 pm

Qiao Sui laughs aloud.

"It seems the spirit of Xiang Yu lives on, and comes from your own mouth Ma Dieu. I believe he stated he must protect an emperor and thus would occupy Chu and you see where this led us? To a fractured land and a tyrant ruling Chu. I do not support Chu being given to 'anyone else' I wish it to be passed to our emperor. He is the Son of Heaven, surely you think him capable of ruling his own hereditary lands? You have earned NO right Ma Dieu, your attacks on various lords including the King of Wu have ever been opportunistic. If you believe you are loyal to the emperor why are you so opposed to him ruling his own lands? Is it because you would be usurped in your control of the capital? I do not believe that a man who will DECLARE himself the emperor's protector before having even consulted with the Emperor or allowed a full council to take place can be trusted. I call upon all other representatives here to recognise this as the beginning, if Ma Dieu is allowed to retain Chu, within a year we shall have another Xiang Yu, this would even less merciful than the last."

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Re: Chen Imperial Council

Postby Brother Dun » Tue Mar 29, 2011 2:35 pm

Xing Cai, alarmed at the words of Ma Dieu shook visibly, "Sheer folly," he managed to say, "Naught but a fool's dreams... You wish to declare yet another Empire Ma Dieu? Have you not learned from the lessons of history? The Qin declared themselves Emperors and were crushed within two generations... Xiang Yu placed an Emperor upon the throne and had him murdered when he was no longer convenient. No... The Lord-Scholar cannot support such a move... After all, Chu held the 'Empire' for all of three years, not even as long as the reign of the second Emperor of Qin... That fool that he was... To claim the Mandate of Heaven is a fool's errand, and it only brings strife and ruin to whomever should claim it..."

Pausing a moment, Xing Cai thought out his next words carefully, "Regardless, why should Chu be the seat of the Empire? After all, was not the longest standing Empire in Qin? Shouldn't the Emperor be returned to the Throne of Heaven? And if he is to be protected, who better to protect him than the King of Qin? The Lord Liu Bang sits in Han, exiled from that lands that were rightfully his, as declared by Emperor Yi of Chu, mind you, and has only fought against the aggressions of Xiang Yu and his vassals... You claim no one moved against Xiang Yu? Then you are foolish beyond a doubt.... All you have proven is that you are as treacherous as Xiang Yu, Ma Dieu, for you were his vassal, who feigned allegiance to him until he was no longer convenient for you... Who is to say that you would not do the same as he did, to whomever you would like to declare Emperor? No... If anyone should be declared protectorate of an Empire, I would think it should be the King of Qin, Liu Bang, for he has shown himself to be a trustworthy and loyal to his liege-lord."
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Re: Chen Imperial Council

Postby gravenimages » Tue Mar 29, 2011 2:41 pm

Xiang Hin had watched those assembled moreso than the Prime Minister as the announcement of the venerable man's suggestion for emperor was made. As he had thought, very few if any faces had shown recognition of this scion of the Mi clan. This all seemed very familiar to Hin... Was the Middle Kingdom to truly repeat such recent history?

With these thoughts in mind, the former Duke stood and advanced to the table, looking about at all assembled. "As has been requested by the Marquis Fei, I will name myself and my clan, so that no confusion shall be afforded regarding my words nor motives. I am Xiang Hin, a man of Chu, currently in service to the King of Wu, and recently the adoptive brother of Xiang Yu, and a member of the Xiang Clan. However, my address of this council is not in the context of my being any of these."

He pauses, looking to the Prime Minister. "Those who know of me know that I was born a peasant, elevated far above my station by a combination of happenstance and the demonstration of some meager skill. I am not qualified to make an informed comment or suggestion regarding the mandate of Heaven, but I must ask, and hope that those with more knowledge than myself shall indulge my ignorance: Did not King Fuchu slay his own brother to become King? Was he not in turn deposed by the Qin? I must ask... Given these things, can we believe that his line is still viewed with favor by Heaven?"

Giving a few moments for these questions to be considered, Hin looks to Ma Dieu, not in distaste but with speculation. "I will reserve my personal feelings and clan obligation regarding our host, as they are not objective by any means and would only spur contention rather than a spirit of resolution. Regarding the protectorate of such as Ma Dieu, I would but observe that he has little experience in such. He has held territory in Jiaoxi, Huianan, Yue, and has had designs on the Wu province as well... Yet now holds none of this territory. With the exclusion of his current ally Yin, none who have aided him have come close to being the better for their contributions to the fulfilling of his ambition.

The comments of the representative from Wu, while perhaps not presented in the spirit of diplomacy also bear consideration. I have no illusions about my brother. I know that he is ambitious and given to fits of rage. But for his order, we would still have an Emperor today. It is a hard thing for me to say, but he was not the ruler that the land needed to bring an end to the fighting. I see many similarities between my brother and Ma Dieu, although I am certain both will be quick to deny such. I would ask that those assembled here consider these things carefully, in the spirit of cooperation and the seeking of an end to the many conflicts that have plagued our land."

V1: Absentee
V2: Da Re, child Duke of Yin
V3: Ouhuan Bai Zhan
V4: Xiang Hin (the PC formerly known as Hin Wu) http://www.simwarlords.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=4910&p=177169#p177169

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Re: Chen Imperial Council

Postby Phailak » Tue Mar 29, 2011 3:05 pm

Lai was glad for the discussion, all had remained so quiet for so long.

"There is no denying my Brother's reputation, but can you really honestly say you doubt his intentions? When he first was given an army by Xiang Yu, he was tasked by the Prime Minister, the then King and Lu Chen to secure Huainan in the Emperor's name. He did so, even stopping in Jiaoxi to remove a corrupt official there and set his base of operations, setting roots with Hin Wu and Ma Su, other Generals of Chu at the time. Immediately after, he took his troops into Huainan to execute the orders given to him. Wu, already having influence over Wu and Yue, 6 cities in power, decided without even a word of it to Chu or Ma Dieu himself to take it upon themselves to avenge what they said was their ally despite very little evidence of that relationship. They did not send reinforcements, they did not petition Chu for titles and rights for Huainan and their ally despite their considerable influence in the east. No instead, they used their resources to try and destroy Ma Dieu and they failed which sparked a long war between the two clans until Yue was ceded last month. While trying to win an advantage over Wu, my brother found himself in Jiujiang and managed to maneuver to reduce Wu to four cities and having captured without any defenders the whole province of Yue. Yes men were lost in Huainan as invasions there failed, but that is only because Wu failed to defend in Jiujiang where their main armies were and chose to flee and slaughter the men in Huainan. No quarter was given despite Ma Dieu's leniency for their Commander's good friend that had lost an important duel in their first battle. Still while in Jiujiang, Ma Su, my brother's cousin and trusted ally was approached by Lu Chen to strike against Xiang Yu out of fear what the man might do. Not some external contact, a well placed man within the Chu administration. When rumors started to circulate of Qing Bu's atrocious act by order of Xiang Yu, my brother set aside his quarrel with Wu and striked at Chu, despite having Wu cornered and without their great Commander who had deserted them and the unfortunate illness of their King. So while Qi spoke of coalition behind their walls in Qi and Liu Bang cowered in Han praying Sai would rescue him from the Wrath of Baocen Peng and Shen Feng, Dieu took action. Already Lu Chen's fear clouded him and he requested we continue our war with Wu, but the plan was already in motion, Lord Tian Rong had arrived to deal out justice and Zhu Lizhi was ready for the risk to deliver Chu."

Clearing his throat, Lai continued.

"So we are here today. My Brother knows his own limitations, he is a Warlord, a man of battle and strategy and his first task upon seizing Chu was to contact the Prime Minister for his guidance. However he trusts the Prime Minister, he also trusts his instincts and will not simply cede power so that someone else can step in. Yes history has not been kind to the last few attempts, but what would you have him do? He will not stand idle while the land suffers thus. Wishes and promises will get you nowhere, we have to look at facts. Ma Dieu is in power right now in Chu, he controls the capital and has the armies to enforce his influence. Once the Emperor comes into power, Ma Dieu will work with him as well as the Prime Minister to secure the land in the Emperor's name. Naming a new Emperor in Chu is not up for debate, if you have a claim for someone else that the Prime Minister would have missed, you are welcomed to argue the point though there is no one else we trust more than him to identify the chosen one form Heaven. If you would discuss titles, lands, borders now that the Emperor will be crowned, that is also welcomed. If you wish to discuss military strategies and how we can secure the land from war, please do so. If you wish instead to question Ma Dieu's character and motives while you all looked away from Xiang Yu in the land's time of need, you are entitled to that opinion, but it still won't change the facts."

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Re: Chen Imperial Council

Postby Brother Dun » Tue Mar 29, 2011 3:20 pm

Xing Cai listened as Fei Lai spoke and shook his head remorsefully, "Then these talks are all for naught, and you have just proven so. Lord Fei Lai, you speak like a fool. You have shown your grand ignorance of the land in but a matter of a few moments, and it saddens me that it seems your views mimic those of the entire administration of Ma Dieu. You claim the King of Han prayed that my lord, his vassal in Sai, would ride to his rescue against Baocen Peng and Shen Feng? You claim that no one lifted a finger to stop Chu, except your own lord? No... Your lord brashly went to battle, and by some great stroke of luck managed to succeed in destroying the supplies to Xiang Yu's army. Had one or two minor things gone the other way, or had Xiang Yu realized that your lord only held treachery towards him in his heart, we would not even be having this discussion, for no doubt Xiang Yu would have won, and your lord, yourself and the rest of your allies would be dead. You act as if might makes right, and if that's the case, then by all means, make right. After all, your armies are nearly shattered after the war with Xiang Yu, and any aggressive actions you take will no doubt not be looked kindly upon by the rest of us assembled. Feel free, prove your right to rule, and stop this charade of peace talks. Invade Sai, Hai, Qi, Wu and Jiaodong. Invade Henan, Wei, Nanyang, Changsha and Zhao. And once you are done, go ahead and wipe out the one you call an ally in Yin, for no doubt you plan to do so once she has served out her usefulness."

Pausing once more, Xing Cai was gaining some momentum, "Your own brash invasion of Xiang Yu proved it, your lord refuses to cooperate with others. Yes, Qi called for a coalition, did your lord answer his call? No. Only my lord, the Lord-Scholar of Xianyang, showed him any interest, and was even marshaling his armies to prepare for the battle with Xiang Yu. Did your lord bother to ask for the help of those who could aid him? No, instead, he unilaterally acted and nearly paid the ultimate price for it. You claim you want credit while you point the finger at the rest of us. No, there shall be no credit given for a foolish act that managed to succeed by the slimmest of margins. You want to damn us for having to fight off the vassals of Xiang Yu, who attacked us under his orders? Is not defeating his vassals, who could have brought their full forces to bear against your lord had we not engaged them, fighting the wiles of Xiang Yu? Essentially, your lord owes his life to the King of Han, for had he not defeated Baocen Peng and Shen Feng's armies, they would have fully reinforced Xiang Yu, and your armies would have been crushed utterly. Yes, you may have made him bleed, but your armies would have been shattered by the sheer overwhelming numbers brought against them. Now, if you want to continue this as a matter of peace, then I suggest you stop making threats, and stop assigning blame where there is none to be assigned. Is my lord happy that Xiang Yu has been cast down? Very much so, and for that, he congratulates you on your victory, but unless you and your lordship change your tone, you will have proven yourself no different than the Hegemon-King, and you will soon find yourselves sharing the same fate as the Hegemon-King," he said, icily.
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Re: Chen Imperial Council

Postby Phailak » Tue Mar 29, 2011 3:31 pm

Lai smiled sadly.

"Yet more wishes and ifs and buts thrown around in order to try and make an argument. I have made no threats, I have simply put forth the facts as we view them in Chu, from the position we have secured. The council has been convened to speak of the new Emperor and how those loyal to him will support him, if you wish to take the floor to try and tarnish Ma Dieu, the opportunity is there for you to waste on such things while others will work towards peace under the new Emperor's watchful eye."

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Re: Chen Imperial Council

Postby Lurking Tyranny » Tue Mar 29, 2011 4:56 pm

Fan Zeng listened to them discuss the situation at length. Accusations were thrown about and it was clear that distrust was heavy in the air. No one here wished to put aside the struggles of the past years and forget their rivalries. They all had their secret ambitions and allegiances. He was however somewhat surprised when only a few raised objection to his candidate for Emperor. That at least was a good sign for the future of Chu.

White brows lowered as he looked upon the lord Scholar of Sai. He had never met the man before and only heard rumors of his activities in the ruins of the Qin capital. It seemed clear however that he had thrown his allegiance behind that loathsome peasant lord Liu Bang. Pulling at his beard he continued to watch the man speak. He would be an enemy of Chu hegemony, the old man thought.

Eventually he turned his attentions away from the man of Qin and instead set them upon the man he once knew as Hin Wu. When had Hin Wu been adopted into the Xiang clan? Fan Zeng had rewarded and protected Hin Wu, yet clearly this man was loyal now to Xiang Yu. Xiang Yu who cared little for Hin Wu when Fan Zeng first established him as a potential lord of the land. Even now he brought up a good point about the lineage of the scion that Fan Zeng had selected. The Prime minister had little to counter such accusations, for they were true. Yet scions of the Mi line were scarce and he was limited in what he had to work with.

Standing up once more the old man of Chu held up his wrinkled hands, hoping to have silence long enough for him to speak. "It is good that we are discussing these matters, yet, we should not cloud the conversation with accusations and slander. Whatever the intentions of the other lords of this land were, none succeeded in toppling Xiang Yu, save Ma Dieu. I am all for giving Chu to the Emperor, but with whose army would be defend his lands? There are powerful factions who have deemed themselves beyond the authority of this council who command vast hosts. Were Ma Dieu to step aside and leave Chu to the Emperor, who would fight in defense of the Emperor? Will the lords and their representatives here today give over the entirety of their forces to the Emperor? Will they provide men of experience and training to command those forces against men like Zhefu or Shi Tong?" He looked about at those assembled, knowing that few would be willing to do so.

He then turned his eyes upon the representative to the so called King of Wu, Yue and Huainan "Were Ma Dieu to pull his forces out of Chu, would your King in Yue cede his territories North of Guangling to Ma Dieu?"

He then looked back to the master of Sai and Di. "You speak highly of Liu Bang. Yet what has he done? You place honors at his feet that he does not deserve."
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Fan Zeng, Prime Minister of Chu

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Liu Bang then asked Han Xin, who had served under Xiang Yu but was driven out, "what is Xiang Yu's weakness? Is there a way to defeat him?" Han Xin calmly replied, "No, Xiang Yu himself is invincible, he is destined to be king."


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