V6 ideas and suggestions

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Phailak
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V6 ideas and suggestions

Postby Phailak » Tue Mar 21, 2017 10:53 am

I already have a list of things I want to do for V6 even though I hope it's a ways off. I'll list them here in no particular order, if you want to add to these or suggest new ones, please do

1. Civil Development. Right now all officers can do is train, npc points and spy. I would really like to expand on that and introduce some type of tactics system where economy is now only for your kingdom but also influences others. Like maybe have different stats for 5 categories like economy (gold), military (soldiers), production (armaments ), network (spy and npcs) and construction (improve location stats type thing). Maybe there are stats like population, productivity, education, etc... this would also add a LOT of skills and not have them all be military

2. I want a ranking system. I feel this would help the game enormously. I look at it as self declared ranks upon capturing certain locations and such and assigned ranks coming from higher authorities like Emperor or a prefect giving a rank to a village chief. The RP implications alone would be worth it

3. Expand the duel system. It needs to be like it is now, all automated, but we can add some complexity to it and I want to bring back the challenge skill not to mention a few duel skills

4. Crafting system. Would love something that provides skills and like some kind of bonuses to things skills don't touch but that complicates the automated part so need to think about that

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Re: V6 ideas and suggestions

Postby King Tao » Tue Mar 21, 2017 11:46 am

For civil development, having Population should be able to cover gold and also introduce food/supplies in game as a tangible number. Make your population, in correlation with buildings and the stats of the town/location's administrator determine the harvest or taxes. Once you figure out how you want to run your turns (seasonal vs monthly), you can determine how to handle harvest numbers. The biggest question with population is how you want your military units represented. Is 1 (0) Soldiers 1 soldier or 100 or 10? From there, it is a matter of getting the right multiplier for tax and harvest numbers.

Could introduce Safety/Security as a Spy defense for the city and also (should you choose) for riot chances. Education seems pointless unless you plan on introducing a Research/Technology ruleset, in which case yes please. Beyond that, just bring in Buildings since those tend to be the easiest to code and offer the greatest variety of options. Make like three tiers of buildings (four for the Administrative Center, making the fourth tier being the Imperial Palace) and it should be good to run through the length of a game.
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Re: V6 ideas and suggestions

Postby Bradums » Tue Mar 21, 2017 1:48 pm

Just a few thoughts:

1. I've never been a fan of representative numbers. 1 = 100, etc. If you have 15000 troops, make the count 15000, not 150 or 1500. If it's a matter of math (upkeep = x / 100, etc), then it seems easier to change the formula to make it work rather than use representative numbers. It doesn't really matter one way or another, but I've always preferred to avoid using representative numbers, because it looks weird.

2. If we included civil development, I think it would add a whole layer to the game. I'd like to see income and resource harvesting affected by not just a static range for each location owned (camp, village, etc.), but to have your locations with stats that added to the totals. Obviously, there could be a base amount to make it fair; i.e. avoiding one developed village providing 10000 troops where a crappy city provides 10, for example. Instead, each type could have a base resource amount with stats providing bonuses. We'd want the disparity to be relatively small to prevent the whole "get one city, win the game" deal, but we'd also want there to be a point to developing cities. ING, JUD, and CHA would get more use in different categories, as well, so that's a plus.

I personally have a ton of fun upgrading and developing cities, so I would love this addition to the game. It adds a ton of RP flavor, and it gives non-war characters stuff to do.

3. Maybe introduce troop limits. Obviously, including ranks would be a good way to create troop limits, but also make them relative to stats like (Lead + Cha). Not only would it add RP flavor with ranks, but it would make some logical sense. As it is, not that it really causes a problem, but Random Jerk with 10 Lead and 20 Cha can field a big ol' army as a wanderer when it's totally implausible for him to do so. Making a troop limit of like...(Lead+Cha)*10 plus a rank bonus would add some realism and mean that in a game that allows anyone to lead troops, only actual military leaders can lead ARMIES and it gives some disparity between a guy who's capable of leading a small mob and a guy who can organize and lead a legitimate army.

For example:

Random Jerk (10-10-40-40-50) with no rank could lead 600 troops, because even though he's a terrible leader and a random nobody, he's charismatic. People would follow him.
Specific Jerk (70-40-20-20-50) as a Commander of Silken Dresses (+500) could lead 1700 troops, because he's a talented leader and semi-charismatic, plus he has a decent rank. People would naturally follow him and he has the ability and authority to manage the higher amount of troops.
Famous Jerk (80-60-70-50-70) as a General of the Fancy Hats (+1500) could lead 3000 troop, because he's a better leader and more charismatic, plus he's a very important person with an important rank.

If anything, this puts a cap on it, so not only does it make logical sense in terms of officer capabilities and rank authority relative to army size, but it prevents Mr. Turtle McTurtleface from hiding out ICly and gathering 100000 troops for the fun of it, then wiping out cities by himself - and it creates the absolute need for alliances, teams, multi-officer armies, etc.

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Re: V6 ideas and suggestions

Postby Phailak » Tue Mar 21, 2017 1:58 pm

Noting all this, will respond later to sepcific points, but just to note Bradums that there are COM limits in the current game now, so that it's COM * 10 per officer in layer for your army. You are right that you can raise 100 000 troops though, maybe we put a limit on drafting as well, just wanted to point out that having 10000 troops is not an easy thing to field into an army within the game as it is today

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Re: V6 ideas and suggestions

Postby Suicide Fox » Wed Mar 22, 2017 10:00 am

Hello Warlords,

This post is going to be about Officer Rankings – you can find the link to the officer rankings tool here!

So I was thinking: officer rankings is a really cool idea and it’s super fun to have a goal to shoot for and see yourself on a leaderboard, but as the game goes on I’d like to expand on it a bit. Currently, officer rankings list the top players with the highest stat in these categories: COM, MIG, ING, JUD, and CHA. I would like to expand this list from 1 to 5-10 players listed at once and I’d like to add new categories for tracking.

Below is a very roughly constructed plan of what I’d like to add in the future. I’d also like to hear some feedback if you can think of some other fun categories to add:

Officer Rankings
-Top COM
-Top MIG
-Top ING
-Top JUD
-Top CHA

-Battles Won
-Duels Won
-Soldiers Defeated
-Locations Owned
-Most NPCs

I stayed away from “most battles lost” “most soldiers lost” because I thought people might not want to be on a list where your performance is scrutinized…better to keep it all positive! But, it would also allow for even more tracking:

-Successful PP Rolls
-Failed PP Rolls
-Battles Lost
-Duels Lost

I think I’ll stop here for now. A lot of this will have to do with how difficult / annoying it is to code and also how interested we are in having this kind of information listed for leaderboards. Have a good one all 
╔═╦╦═╗ Jian Bian (36)
║╚╣╠═╣ 78*-101*-42-70-31
╠╗║╠═╝ Administration 2, Charge 3, Drafting 3, Entangle 1, Escort 2, Sortie 1, Wall 2
╚═╩╝

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Re: V6 ideas and suggestions

Postby King Tao » Wed Mar 22, 2017 10:37 pm

Bradums wrote:2. If we included civil development, I think it would add a whole layer to the game. I'd like to see income and resource harvesting affected by not just a static range for each location owned (camp, village, etc.), but to have your locations with stats that added to the totals. Obviously, there could be a base amount to make it fair; i.e. avoiding one developed village providing 10000 troops where a crappy city provides 10, for example. Instead, each type could have a base resource amount with stats providing bonuses. We'd want the disparity to be relatively small to prevent the whole "get one city, win the game" deal, but we'd also want there to be a point to developing cities. ING, JUD, and CHA would get more use in different categories, as well, so that's a plus.

Just to touch on this a bit, I think Village, Towns, Cities should be treated the same across the board, but with subtle changes. Firstly, have the max a stat can be (if you even want a max, otherwise just raise the minimum) be based on which category the location falls in. If we were handling them via maxes, do the scale at like 250 -> 500 -> 100; minimums can be 75 -> 150 -> 300. Clearly if we do that, Cities should be rare, with the range being 1 or 2 (2 being rare) cities per province. Could also add a slight modifier to the tax/harvest formula of a 10% bonus for towns and a 20% for cities.

To make ING, JUD, and CHA have more value, we could make it so a governor of a location's action for the turn is five types of governing based around each of the five stats, and it grants a bonus based off which stat is used (COM would give Troops, MIG would increase like the Safety/Anti-Spy stat of the location, ING would grant Spy points or help with research if that becomes a thing, JUD would give a small bonus to whatever economy stats exist, and CHA would give NPC points). Of course JUD (which I think is the Politics stat?) should be the main decider on a character's impact on taxes and harvest, in addition to any skills that get added, maybe have COM and ING play smaller roles in that as well.

It's hard to say without having an idea of what the scope of civil development. Will they be handled traditionally as Kingdom Turns? Will they just be tagged onto PTs? Will they be focused on individual locations or grouped by province?
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Re: V6 ideas and suggestions

Postby Phailak » Wed Mar 22, 2017 11:15 pm

Vision I have for it is similar systems to the battle and PP system. Something where you have stats like morale, supplies, attack and defense in battle with soldiers and armaments or like the stamina, production and motivation in PP that drive results. Main idea would be that each KT would influence the others. Not sure how to achieve that yet, but if some are raising population, others will lose some. If trade rises between players, others will lose some. Even to a degree attracting NPCs can influence how others will have less. I don't mean a I boosted my economy so much everyone around me will get nothing, more a subtle influence. It could make spying and covert ops that much more important.

The other part I had in mind was that you would have a workforce: merchants, criminals, workers, nobles, guards, etc... and each has a minimum amount you can have and some can't rise without others? Not sure, spitballing here...

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Re: V6 ideas and suggestions

Postby Knuckle » Thu Mar 23, 2017 11:40 am

Phailak wrote:I already have a list of things I want to do for V6 even though I hope it's a ways off. I'll list them here in no particular order, if you want to add to these or suggest new ones, please do

3. Expand the duel system. It needs to be like it is now, all automated, but we can add some complexity to it and I want to bring back the challenge skill not to mention a few duel skills


I think this hits the nail on the head for me personally. Having a duelist specialization is so much fun especially if it can synergize with some more direct subterfuge/spy skills where you can physically steal armaments from enemy camps or cause their soldiers to defect or be asassinated.

The current duel system leaves me feeling that its simply 2 players gambling for their officers life pretty much 50/50 if they choose to duel. The difference between this type of duel system and say simrtk, is that you can hedge your bet and increase probabilities of winning the duel. Here it is simply guesswork with flat counters to each choice. Having a 'only final round' or '2 times per battle' option to choose for a few more tactics will create real strategy that can give a more powerful effect. Having unique tactics with a dueling skill would also be neat.
1.) Lighting Quick Duelist - Gains an extra tactic choice to use on their first and last tactic, with no negative effects if one of the choices counters the opponents move.
2.) Coup De Grace - Final tactic has 4x the effect on opponent if successful.
3.)Blood Lust - 10% damage boost after opponent is struck for remainder of duel
4.) Steel curtain - 15% damage mitigation after you counter a tactic for remainder of duel.
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RIP Rah-Ky 65-60-60-75-57 Barrage 1, Barricade 1, Delay 1, Drafting 3, Haste 1, Poison 2, Rupture 2, Support 2, Administration 3

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Re: V6 ideas and suggestions

Postby Phailak » Thu Mar 23, 2017 12:02 pm

OK I like those, a lot.

I was also thinking styles. You could use them if you had the matching skills, they would provide bonuses depending on conflicting styles, but also give bonuses to certain tactics and resisting certain others. This would help with the guesswork, if someone only had 1 skill in dueling, you could guess they would use that style though they might actually use that as a feint? I'm sure we can find better names (maybe the old ones from previous versions) but high level:

Dual / two 1 handed weapons (like Dynasty warriors' Liu Bei) would promote counters
Halberd / any 2 handed weapon (most crazy badass duelist) would promote power attacks
Sword and shield / any 1 handed and shield (did they even use shields back then???) would promote defense
Spear / 1 handed weapon would promote speed

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Re: V6 ideas and suggestions

Postby Bradums » Thu Mar 23, 2017 12:43 pm

Civil Development

I could see this being included in the Planning Phase. Whoever is in charge of a location would have it in their PP to do turns for. It could be super simple, like a five option "Raise Drafting through COM (Increase troop generation each turn); Raise Defenses through MGT (Increase city defense/anti-subterfuge); Raise Trade through ING (Increase city gold income each turn); Raise Harvest through JUD (Increase food/supply income); and Raise Public Opinion through CHA (Increase free NPC pool, chances of NPCs joining, less negative event chance, etc.). The owner would just choose which to do. Makes owners more liable for the development and incentivizes more than just COM and MGT for battle, because their incomes and harvests would suffer. And if they can select others to administer the cities, it gives incentive to get capable people to back you up. Or...you could cover your bases and use one city to devote to a warlord to raise troops while another is used for gold and/or food. Just...options, I guess.

Or you can allow everyone to have an action in their city. Same as above, but everyone can do it, so they can choose to do something for their city whether they're allied or not. Makes mercenaries more viable, because you can be paid to help improve cities even if not sworn to their service, but could be dicey or possible to abuse, i.e. people having a reason to make bots/turnmonkeys to eff with people.

You could also add negative actions to mirror those, to add an ability for easy subterfuge and infiltration. Maybe make negative actions hidden, i.e. "Someone subverted public opinion in Yong An! -8 Public Opinion" or "Someone damaged the fields in Shaqu! -20 Harvest"

Dueling

I agree with the above. I always liked the prospect of having a champion, because if you read the novels, a lot of cool parts are the duels between champions. Historically, that was kind of a thing, too. Guys would make a name for themselves and alter the course of battle by beating down the famous guy on the other side. It's a good way to punch morale, cause desertion or a reduction of unit effectiveness, etc.

One of the easiest ways for duelists to differentiate themselves is in skills. Two 100 MGT characters would basically be playing rock, paper, scissors. Which, I know, is the whole point of the system as it is - a simple way for dueling to happen. But you throw the ability to dedicate Skill Exp to dueling bonuses, and suddenly the super strong commander is a legitimate duelist, not just a guy who is luckier and stronger than the other guy :P

I agree with the idea of adding some duel-oriented abilities, as well.


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