Technical and Rules questions V5 (Archived)

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Phailak
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Re: Technical and Rules questions

Postby Phailak » Mon Apr 03, 2017 4:00 pm

Jolt wrote:Firstly, the announcement would be fine if the rules are updated to reflect it (The appropriate thread still only mentions that supplies 'start' at 100, without any mention that it can't increase). When you're checking the battle mechanics for the first time, you obviously use the Battles post in the rules subforum, not another miscellaneous subforum. Otherwise, we have an haphazard confusion where contradictory rules and additions are spread across threads and subforums. I likewise checked previous battles to calculate troop numbers and how they affected battle damage and noticed the increase in supply, which again, wasn't countermanded in the battle rules.

As it stands, I applied my tactics in accordance to what was written in the battles rules thread. So I can't really be faulted for that.

In addition, I continue to not understand how with similar Melee Attacks, and with more than double the amount of troops, and the roughly the same relevant stats opposed to any of the NPCs I was against, I was the same amount of damage by Turn 2.

Thirdly, I'm yet to understand how my Melee Attack attribute dropped each turn after tactics with no tactic directly affecting it.


Good point, updated the rules just now to be more specific, if you have time to check if I missed it anywhere else, didn't find a specific mention of supplies allowed over 100 that would boost attack though, just added a note to say it cannot.

For the second point, not sure I understand. So your attack being 168 vs 138 is very similar to 167 vs 135 so it's normal the numbers would be similar no? Even the other rounds.

What is strange is how defense drops after round 1 when defense is basically stats and training so can only be affected by tactics.

For the drop for your attack, only thing that can change during battle and affect attack is supplies yet yours never drop below 100, they are only affected positively. Checked and found nothing but will continue to check to see why it drops by 6.

So while I work on figuring out those numbers (they are very small drops and would not affect much) we can discuss what to do about the supplies issue. It is clear you went into this battle with that strategy in mind and I understand the confusion, do you have a suggestion? I am willing to allow a manual rerun if you wish with new submitted tactics, I could run it tomorrow morning if you feel it can change things or I am open to another solution. Let me know.

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Re: Technical and Rules questions

Postby Phailak » Mon Apr 03, 2017 4:18 pm

Phailak wrote:
For the drop for your attack, only thing that can change during battle and affect attack is supplies yet yours never drop below 100, they are only affected positively. Checked and found nothing but will continue to check to see why it drops by 6.



Found the issue, was always using the armaments from defenders on the update, fixed it but made me realize another issue. Casualties are taken off each round but not armaments, they are calculated at the end so I will change the code to do that every round. This is not the end of the world, but makes it so more troops you lose, better your armament bonus gets up to 25. Working on that logic now

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Re: Technical and Rules questions

Postby Jolt » Mon Apr 03, 2017 4:23 pm

Phailak wrote:For the second point, not sure I understand. So your attack being 168 vs 138 is very similar to 167 vs 135 so it's normal the numbers would be similar no? Even the other rounds.


It's similar Melee Attack AND double the troop numbers. Unless having 1 or 1000 troops is irrelevant in how much damage you make, I made the attack under the assumption that superior troop numbers, all other things being equal, accrued higher total damage, since I assume it would be basic logic that the attack formula is somehow multiplied by the number of troops attacking.

As it stands, I'm seeing someone with less than half my troops dealing the same damage as I do, which is mindboggling. In the last turn, I have roughly 5 times the number of men I'm attacking and yet I do less damage than he does.

Phailak wrote:For the drop for your attack, only thing that can change during battle and affect attack is supplies yet yours never drop below 100, they are only affected positively. Checked and found nothing but will continue to check to see why it drops by 6.


Yes, it's the drop by 6 that I'm talking about.

Phailak wrote:I am willing to allow a manual rerun if you wish with new submitted tactics, I could run it tomorrow morning if you feel it can change things or I am open to another solution. Let me know.


Yeah, a re-run would be good, but if the troop numbers and/or troop difference are irrelevant to the damage calculation, then I don't think I would have even attacked in the first place.

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Re: Technical and Rules questions

Postby Phailak » Mon Apr 03, 2017 4:57 pm

Yeah so the formula pre-dates me and I kept it because it seemed to make sense and stood a few dozen big battles, but basically your attack vs defense >>> troop numbers.

SO the formula is basically comparing att and def and then applying it against a factor for total number of troops between the two armies. Basically, you outnumbering does not affect casualties inflicted, your att vs def does. Only thing numbers are good for is fodder.

It may seem illogical, but the idea here is to counter the effects of massive armies always winning. Usually numbers will still win in the end because they can absorb more casualties but on smaller scale like this, might not be as obvious.

No idea if a rerun will change the result, if you have another suggestion, I am up for it. If you want a rerun, you'll have to send me via PM your tactics because I have to run it manually (don't worry I have a manual tool I really don't mind)

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Re: Technical and Rules questions

Postby Jolt » Mon Apr 03, 2017 5:07 pm

Phailak wrote:SO the formula is basically comparing att and def and then applying it against a factor for total number of troops between the two armies. Basically, you outnumbering does not affect casualties inflicted, your att vs def does. Only thing numbers are good for is fodder.


But since the only path to victory lies in defeating the enemy melee layer in six rounds, with no other alternative, and since troop numbers have no effect on damage, battles become simply a matter of lowering your opponents melee attack if you're defending, and raising your own melee attack if you're attacking, which becomes quite simplistic.

Another problem with not being able to increase supplies past the beginning point is that it makes Escort mostly useless.

Because then the only reason to use it is if you think the other opponent will use a lowering supplies tactics and succeed, on the same or previous round to when you use Escort, which is quite restrictive. And if your opponent doesn't use that tactic, or uses it and fails, you'll just waste a round and effectiveness for no reason.

Phailak wrote:No idea if a rerun will change the result, if you have another suggestion, I am up for it. If you want a rerun, you'll have to send me via PM your tactics because I have to run it manually (don't worry I have a manual tool I really don't mind)


Just run Charge I on me on all rounds.

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Re: Technical and Rules questions

Postby Phailak » Mon Apr 03, 2017 5:11 pm

You may be right, but I am not so sure. Right now, it feels like a waste because there are only a few officers in the battles. Once we reach the target 10 vs 10 and you likely have officers lowering your supplies, it will be invaluable. Have your attack crippled by supplies is definitely going to be worth wasting a slot I think.

That being said, if you or any others would like to trade skills for one within the same categories that you picked, I don't mind, let me know.

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Re: Technical and Rules questions

Postby Jolt » Mon Apr 03, 2017 5:13 pm

Phailak wrote:You may be right, but I am not so sure. Right now, it feels like a waste because there are only a few officers in the battles. Once we reach the target 10 vs 10 and you likely have officers lowering your supplies, it will be invaluable. Have your attack crippled by supplies is definitely going to be worth wasting a slot I think.

That being said, if you or any others would like to trade skills for one within the same categories that you picked, I don't mind, let me know.


Bump my Raid to the second level and lower my Escort to the first one, since raid doesn't require you to guess, hence it is valuable no matter when you use it.

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Re: Technical and Rules questions

Postby Phailak » Mon Apr 03, 2017 5:36 pm

Done.

I'll rerun the battle sometime tomorrow, let me know if there's anything else

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Re: Technical and Rules questions

Postby Chinka » Tue Apr 04, 2017 9:13 am

Do player stats effect income from camps,villages,etc...?

I know skills do.

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Re: Technical and Rules questions

Postby Phailak » Tue Apr 04, 2017 10:14 am

Chinka wrote:Do player stats effect income from camps,villages,etc...?

I know skills do.


No


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