Technical and Rules questions

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Phailak
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Re: Technical and Rules questions

Postby Phailak » Sat Apr 01, 2017 11:17 am

Rebel wrote:If there is no support layer on one side and the other side uses tactics from support layer like Guard/Rally, who's defense stat is used?


Default stat of 30

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Jolt
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Re: Technical and Rules questions

Postby Jolt » Mon Apr 03, 2017 12:45 pm

In my battle, my character successfully used Escort II two times, but the supplies didn't change and the attack actually dropped, with no opposing enemy tactics to that effect.

Assuming tactics success remain the same, the first successful Escort should increase my supplies to 120, and Melee Attack to (168*1,2)=201,6

Second turn, an equally successful Escort II with no opposing tactics to decrease my Melee Attack or Supplies should increase my supplies to 140, and Melee Attack to (168*1,4)=235,2

Even with two factor increases of 20% over the Melee Attack, there was a very discernible drop in Melee Damage, to the point where by Turn 2, the enemy melee layer had less than half of my troops, less supplies/melee damage, yet was doing the same damage.

This makes no mathematical sense.

What happened?

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Re: Technical and Rules questions

Postby Phailak » Mon Apr 03, 2017 1:34 pm

Jolt wrote:In my battle, my character successfully used Escort II two times, but the supplies didn't change and the attack actually dropped, with no opposing enemy tactics to that effect.

Assuming tactics success remain the same, the first successful Escort should increase my supplies to 120, and Melee Attack to (168*1,2)=201,6

Second turn, an equally successful Escort II with no opposing tactics to decrease my Melee Attack or Supplies should increase my supplies to 140, and Melee Attack to (168*1,4)=235,2

Even with two factor increases of 20% over the Melee Attack, there was a very discernible drop in Melee Damage, to the point where by Turn 2, the enemy melee layer had less than half of my troops, less supplies/melee damage, yet was doing the same damage.

This makes no mathematical sense.

What happened?


Posted a few announcements to remove the go over 100 supplies effect because it was loophole. So the idea is you can go over 100 supplies ONLY to protect yourself against supply attacks, before attack is calculated, it reverts back to 100. Basically you can never go over 100 for the purpose of gaining attack. Supplies affecting attack is meant as an effect of using rations and such, lowering your attack if you are suffering from lack of supplies. I was going to leave it in at first but when boosting supplies was providing a better advantage than using charge for attack, had to change it

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Re: Technical and Rules questions

Postby Guardian Arrow » Mon Apr 03, 2017 1:36 pm

Jolt, you can't stay over 100 Supplies. See the announcement here.

On another subject, the post before that says that the chance to recoup 0 efficiency was removed, yet there was still a lot of 0 efficiency regen in battles this turn. What's up with that?

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Re: Technical and Rules questions

Postby Phailak » Mon Apr 03, 2017 1:54 pm

Guardian Arrow wrote:Jolt, you can't stay over 100 Supplies. See the announcement here.

On another subject, the post before that says that the chance to recoup 0 efficiency was removed, yet there was still a lot of 0 efficiency regen in battles this turn. What's up with that?


Gimme some examples :mrgreen:

In theory I changed the formula so that it adds recups for CHA to recups from morale so even low morale should give you something, but possible what I did failed, I'll work through some examples if you have them (I'll look them up once I am done correcting the PP stuff if you don't have a chance to)

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Re: Technical and Rules questions

Postby Chinka » Mon Apr 03, 2017 1:57 pm

In older versions if your morale and charm suck you could still generate 0 effectiveness.

Most people have crap morale and charisma.

I went from 7 to 13 with the formula change.

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Re: Technical and Rules questions

Postby Guardian Arrow » Mon Apr 03, 2017 2:08 pm

Phailak wrote:
On another subject, the post before that says that the chance to recoup 0 efficiency was removed, yet there was still a lot of 0 efficiency regen in battles this turn. What's up with that?


Gimme some examples :mrgreen:


Three officers in my battle last turn had 0 regen every single turn.
An Taijie's recuperates 0 efficiency
Yao Xiu's recuperates 0 efficiency
Shang Lo's recuperates 15 efficiency
Chu Long's recuperates 13 efficiency
Tugu Ping's recuperates 0 efficiency


Or here, same people every turn again:
Jian Bian's recuperates 0 efficiency
Ying Man's recuperates 0 efficiency
Mo Xia's recuperates 0 efficiency
Zhao Ro's recuperates 14 efficiency


Or the next one, Niu Zumu with 0 regen every time. And probably other battles too but hopefully you get the point. :cry:

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Re: Technical and Rules questions

Postby Phailak » Mon Apr 03, 2017 2:09 pm

Chinka wrote:In older versions if your morale and charm suck you could still generate 0 effectiveness.

Most people have crap morale and charisma.

I went from 7 to 13 with the formula change.


Exactly, that is the change I made because of how the game is now. In the past, you had to reach a certain morale threshold to even gain 1 morale back, but back then you can easily raise your army's morale in one turn or in battle. So decided to adjust it a bit, we'll see if it works out

I'll check those battles and see what happened, maybe my new formula doesn't work

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Re: Technical and Rules questions

Postby Phailak » Mon Apr 03, 2017 2:13 pm

Found the bug, I changed the formula in the check if above 0, but forgot to actually apply the damn thing. Fixed.

If anyone can convince me this played a part in a loss, PM me and we can see if we can do anything. I don't want to mess around with losses and such though, only if you feel it could of changed the battle

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Re: Technical and Rules questions

Postby Jolt » Mon Apr 03, 2017 3:39 pm

Phailak wrote:Posted a few announcements to remove the go over 100 supplies effect because it was loophole. So the idea is you can go over 100 supplies ONLY to protect yourself against supply attacks, before attack is calculated, it reverts back to 100. Basically you can never go over 100 for the purpose of gaining attack. Supplies affecting attack is meant as an effect of using rations and such, lowering your attack if you are suffering from lack of supplies. I was going to leave it in at first but when boosting supplies was providing a better advantage than using charge for attack, had to change it


Firstly, the announcement would be fine if the rules are updated to reflect it (The appropriate thread still only mentions that supplies 'start' at 100, without any mention that it can't increase). When you're checking the battle mechanics for the first time, you obviously use the Battles post in the rules subforum, not another miscellaneous subforum. Otherwise, we have an haphazard confusion where contradictory rules and additions are spread across threads and subforums. I likewise checked previous battles to calculate troop numbers and how they affected battle damage and noticed the increase in supply, which again, wasn't countermanded in the battle rules.

As it stands, I applied my tactics in accordance to what was written in the battles rules thread. So I can't really be faulted for that.

In addition, I continue to not understand how with similar Melee Attacks, and with more than double the amount of troops, and the roughly the same relevant stats opposed to any of the NPCs I was against, I was the same amount of damage by Turn 2.

Thirdly, I'm yet to understand how my Melee Attack attribute dropped each turn after tactics with no tactic directly affecting it.


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